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Sunday, June 29, 2008

Comments

bi

(thought you'd be interested in this, b/c it's alabama...Siegelman country!)

FOX News, right on schedule, has started the reports of voter fraud by the Democratic Party. Eric Shawn interviewed the Alabama Attorney General, Troy King, who claimed people have been selling their votes. When Shawn finally asked him to identify the Party responsible, King said Democratic counties were involved but stopped short at flatly blaming one party. However, the message was clear.

King noted that the investigation into voter fraud has been going on for four years. He pinpointed Perry County as most problematic and there was a quick clip of voters walking into the polls assumed to be Perry County's and all were African-American. Notice King's stammering when he lays blame on Democrats.

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/06/29/fox_news_reports_alabama_voter_fraud_by_democrats.php

big dan

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/06/29/fox_news_reports_alabama_voter_fraud_by_democrats.php

Anon.

Part 2 does not work properly. The video stops at about 2 1/2 minutes to show advertising and then stops.

HPM

Anon - thanks for the note. I tested the video and it worked fine. Try clearing your cache. Also, I did note that Revver was having a few problems earlier. Thanks.

OttO

I guess I'm one of those "stupid" and "ignorant" right-wingers he's talking about, the kind of commentary that doesn't inspire brilliance.

I've heard interviews with Bugliosi after he released the JFK book and I was impressed with both him and the book. While my initial reaction to this new book was to roll my eyes, I thought it may, unlike most of the deranged Bush tripe, be an interesting and provocative read. I read a synopsis then ended up here and his rather juvenile attacks on me and others like me have basically ended my interest in this book and only confirms what I originally suspected: just more hyper-partisan Bush hysteria.

If Bugliosi is so smart and in-tune then maybe he'd tone down the rhetoric so as not to turn people away from his book. After all he doesn't have to convince people who already hate Bush. He could write a book describing how Bush could legally be shot into space in a capsule and they would eat it up. It's people like me who may be curious as to what his legal arguments are but now have no plans on giving money to a person who speaks like an angry teenager in efforts to insult me.

HPM

LOL Otto. Forget whether Bugliosi is right. Forget whether Bush is a murderer. Forget that a man walks free while hundreds of thousands of innocents and more than 4,000 American soldiers have been killed. None of that matters to you because you consider yourself part of a larger group which Bugliosi insulted. And once insulted you refuse to review the merits of the case.

And you have the temerity to call Bugliosi juvenile!


Joe Papa

That is right OTTO! You are one stupid ass. Bugliosi is brilliant and corageous. Otto why don't you go and fight in Iraq. You won't be missed.

Rachael Catran

I would love his e-mail address. I read a couple of his books and I really admire his work. Looking gorward to seeing him on c-span.

concerned

im just concerned about bugliosi's ad hominems...i mean keeping a stiff upper lip need not entail a heartless soul. on saying 'im having a perfect day' altho admittedly heartless when juxtaposed with the horrifying fact of dying soldiers. need not expose this 'small man' to the charge of being a monster if the comment had nothing to do with the war...and altho war is undoubtedly the most important concern of a president whose country was at war, a presidents function surely encompasses other concerns that also have to be met. it seems to me, it could be argued that his words or his smiling appearance need not have (may or may not have) betrayed his mind, and may well have been ways of maintaining a positive forward looking outlook on the conduct of the war e.g. success.
we cannot know if his comments were made speaking in his capacity as president or in his capacity as citizen Bush on his time off (it could be argued that just as he isnt a monster, he need not be superhuman either)

it is difficult to argue against the psychology of a man (let alone know his psychology) based on a couple of short comments he made on tv.

on a couple more points: based on the october 1 CIA report, bugliosi's point about Bush's lie seems irrefutable. however, i wonder if an underling couldnt be made to take the blame for this like happenned with the contra-affair.

the logical link between the lie and the murder charge could also be conceivably derailed with a military argument. i mean it could be argued that the majority of iraqi killed (the 100,000 bugliosi mentions) were killed in airstrikes before the groundforces were deployed. the consensual myth among politicians and aerospace engineers (since WWI)persists in the belief that airstrikes work to cause PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder). according to Lt. Col. dave grossman (google: 'panetics: continuity in the nature of war' - these people see airstrikes as the best way to 'save lives' since bombing (it is believed altho mistakenly according to grossman) causes maximum psychological shock/damage to the enemy that will demoralize them into capitulating earlier..obviating the need for ground forces to risk their lives. (you might concede how this argument was and still is convincing bassed on the terrible casulaties of ground forces in WWI)

since the military orders were to launch airstrikes before the ground invasion, bush it could be argued may have sought capitulation and not retaliation from the iraqis and therefore he could potentially be let off the hook for the crime you allege he committed of letting 4000 US soldiers get killed because of iraqi retaliation.

again we cannot know the extent of bush's military expertise here, but if his decisions were tied to expert military advise, again he could potentially be let off the hook as someone who had no reason to question the expert advice he was given (even if it was wrong).

i hope you've thought of these potentials...

Jack

When Bush is prosecuted I hope that Blair stands in the dock with him as a co-conspirator. These two immature and arrogant politicians have brought shame and loathing to their respective countries and pain and suffering to hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

The fact that they were able to do what they did is an indictment of the sycophantic politicians around them and the subservient media that we have in the US and the UK.

It's time for Obama and the Democrats to stop pandering to the right wing and stand up confidently and firmly to the bigotry, greed and blinkered religious self righteousness.

When Obama becomes President he should stand fully behind measures to prosecute Bush otherwise he too will be seen as someone without a moral backbone who takes the easy way out for the sake of expediency.

wondering

im wondering if the death toll that bugliosi mentions in one lump 4000 US soldiers 'and' 100,000 iraqis...might not be questionable in some ways. sure, if bush took the US to war on false premises...fine. he's guilty. if he was misled however, he lied 'unknowingly'...and that'll be it. A) find a fall guy for him and he shall be let off the hook.

if A can be found, the charge that Bush is guilty of murder, bugliosi's central argument, wouldnt get off the ground. no guilt, no murder.
4000 died, 100,000 died. so what, this was a war..(believed to be a war) perhaps mistaken but bush is free, guilt free..

if bush knowingly took the US to war, on the other hand, and he's found guilty of misleading the public. OK, he's guilty of lying. is he guilty of murder too?

now, is a false war, a war waged on false premises murder...? ironically, couldnt it be argued that a man who orders airstrikes first so as to prevent casualties on to his ground forces (and sincerely believed that this would reduce casualties..) wouldnt this ameliorate the charge of 'murder'.
assuming the charge could be layed when everyone else believed and conducted themselves 'as if' it was a war.. in war, people act to kill in self-defence...this involves the sovereign right of nation states to protect their territorial integrity. this is self-defence of the nation.. but is this the same as personally acting to kill in self-defence. if we cannot prosecute soldiers in a war who kill in self-defence and in the conduct of war for murder...we would have to assume that similarly we cannot label shots fired in a (false war presumed real) to be the equivalent of murder. the iraqi soldiers firing at US soldiers cannot consitute murder. if so, then the third party argument also falls.

Bush is not guilty. end of story.

jbz

Bugliosi speaks from my soul... Finally - Someone! Hoping firmly that another brave and skillful prosecutor comes forward to bring this criminal administration before a U.S. court of law as soon as they are "civilians" and no longer have the "power" of their office to throw around. Just seeing them in court defending themselves would be the GREATEST :)

Mark

Nicely done. Hope it will come true, but will remain sceptical until it happens.
"Bush is not guilty. end of story." said wondering. This must be a bitter right-wing joke. Hitler wasn't guilty either. The order for the nihilation of the jews was never found.
Cheers all the way from Germany
Mark

John Handal

Dear Mr. Bugliosi: I heard the six part youtube.com about prosecuting Bush: I agree with you completely. All the points that you mentioned are not just truthful, but also well known throughout the nation and throughout the World, I know, I talk on the phone to other countries.

The Iraqi "War" (really Invasion for the benefit of private interests), has caused damages of unsuspected proportions, not just in the thousands of precious American lives been lost, but also causing directly or indirectly many hundred of thousands if not millions of innocent Iraqi lives, including kids. Besides the number of handicapped people, Physically or Psychologically is staggering. Not just that, but the reputation of the USA Internationally has suffered irreparable damage.

I could keep on going for a while about more consequences that will stay for the very long run. Prosecuting Bush is not just the right thing to do, but also the smart thing to do ... we need to show the World that after all there is some sort of Justice in America.
Wishing you a successfull outcome in your quest for justice. I am proud of you, sincerely, John Handal.

Brian

After watching the videos and reading the reviews, I ordered two copies of the book; one to be delivered to me, the other to be delivered directly to the Attorney General of my state (Oregon). Also I have written a letter to my Attorney General explaining the brief prepared by Mr. Bugliosi and the request to prosecute the criminals for the 68 wrongful deaths of US soldiers from my state, and appended a list of the 68 victims.

In fact, I have also decided to purchase a third copy, and have it delivered to the District Attorney of my county (Lincoln County). There have been four wrongful deaths of US soldiers who were legal residents of my county at the times of their deaths. Let justice prevail!

I invite everyone who believes in truth and justice to send a copy of the book to the AG of your own state, as well as the DA of the county where you reside (providing that there has been at least one wrongful death of a citizen of your county).

Roundup Logan

This SOB calls all right wing Americans hypocrits and un-American. Just whole the hell does he think he is? That single statement tells me he's another Michael Moore just full of BS. I don't care if your left wing, right wing, or center of the road, we're all Americans. That's what makes this a great country. To just unilaterally categorize one side or the others as hypocrits and un-American just shows the true colors and character of the individual spewing his nasty venom.

Roundup Logan

BTW people - under the Clinton administration there were over 14,000 US soldier deaths. That's double the rate there has been under George Bush. And guess what, we were never at war under Bill Clinton. In fact if anyone is guilty of murder, I'd say Bill Clinton was guilty because he abandonded our soldiers and left them to die in remote regions of the world. That's a stark contrast to our current President who fully supports our soldiers. To accuse George Bush of murder is perposterous. This guy needs to lay off the crack pipe and quit looking for another day in the lime light.

Pappy B

To Ronald Logan

Stop posting BS.
Check your facts first
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/deaths.asp

NickOtein

I read with great interest the paper by Vincent Bugliosi, I also watched the video clip.
It gives me great satisfaction to read and hear that some-one with the prowess, knowledge of the law and ability to write in such a manner as he does. I have written to Prime Ministers, bothe here in Australia and the UK, I also wrote to George W. Bush, but never received replies.
I have always considered that the War in Iraq, has been a vendetta, created by George W. Bush, for the assination attempt on his fathers life,
George Snr:
No WoMD: were found in Iraq, but Georeg Jnr: decided that he should bring Saddam Hussein down, in order to create a stepping stone to Iran. In doing so, he caused the great loss of life, not only to US soldiers, but to Australian soldiers, British soldiers and the civilian populace of Iraq, by the retaliating forces of the the Taliban and Osama Bin-Laden guerilla's.
He also caused the Kangaroo Court, that found Saddam Hussein and his two brothers guilty of Murder, commited against Shi-ite's, many years previously.
No doubt Saddam was a Tyrant, but George W. Bush did not have or reserve the right to interfere with Iraq's Government or Law's.
If the evidence can be proven against Bush, then yes he should stand Trial in a Federal Court of his Peers, the American Electorate.

hapenny

"If justice means anything at all in America...." Thanks, Mr. Bugliosi, for giving me hope that it does mean something!

best video

I have always considered that the War in Iraq, has been a vendetta, created by George W. Bush, for the assination attempt on his fathers life,

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